Click the “plus” below for the full text transcript, or scroll down for the blog post.

Kim: [00:00:31]  today I have Kate Jetmore with me and she hosts The Listen Podcast, which is all about Americans living abroad, telling their stories and how they got there. 

KateJ: [00:01:05] So as you said, I’m the host of The Listen Podcast, which launched in November 2019 with a focus on telling an international and cross-cultural story. Our very first season we talked with women who are raising their children outside their own culture, which is my story and your story. We’ve also talked with people who’ve had adventures all over the world, with linguists and with all kinds of people who have an expansive world view.

I have to be honest, it was mostly launching the show was mostly about kind of scratching a personal itch, all about my own interests, but also sort of being able to continue to explore the world while I’m in this chapter of raising a child and growing businesses and needing to be more grounded, you know, finding another way to sort of travel and explore and learn.

So as far as where we are now with the podcast, earlier this year, as you said, we honed our focus and now we define ourselves as an exploration of Americans abroad and how they got there. So all of our guests are Americans at this point. And in the current run, which we’re just wrapping up, we have spoken with international teachers, people who have lived in and explored the continent of Africa, women who were in the Peace Corps, and our current series is all about books. 

My guests are incredibly inspiring. They have great stories to tell, amazing stories to tell. But I think even more importantly, they are real and they’re human. And hearing them talk about their experiences reminds us that if they can do it, we can do it.

Kim: [00:03:09] Yeah, yeah, there are so many amazing stories and we don’t always get at them. I’m thinking of the people who live in my community who I have met, and I know that they’ve done really interesting things. But in the course of a coffee morning or a PTA meeting or something, you don’t always get those stories. So this is a great venue.

KateJ: [00:03:34] That’s absolutely right, and one of my recent guests, Kelly Rush, she was the final guest in my series on the Peace Corps and you know, it is when you book a guest, you talk before the interview and then you you do the interview and then there’s some communication afterward as well. And her feedback was so effusive. She said, You know, I don’t think anyone has ever asked me to sit down and tell my story about being in the Peace Corps. And I mean, it just sent chills up and down my body because I wanted to hear her story and she wanted to tell her story.

Kim: [00:04:12] Oh, that is so powerful. Oh, wow. OK, so you’ve already kind of half answered one of the questions I was going to ask you, but what do you think are some of the benefits of storytelling for humans in general?

KateJ: [00:04:32] Well, I think we have to start out by acknowledging that while life can be amazing, it can also be really hard.

You know, in general, we all have moments in our lives that are, you know, they can run the gamut from challenging to overwhelming. And what stories do is they provide us with. A map, You know, as we move through this thing called life, they provide waypoints, they act as lighthouses or, you know, points of reference for us

So there are several different ways of looking at that. One is that they give us context, so the context keeps us from feeling lost. So, for example, you know, whether we’ve personally experienced this or seen it in a movie, we all know that image of someone trying to get from one building to the next in a snowstorm. You know, you don’t you don’t know. You can’t see you can’t see far enough in front of you. You don’t know where the other people are. The wind is howling. But if you have a tether, if you have something, a railing or a rope or a hand that you can hold that will guide you to the next to that next building, that is a life saver. And in a lot of ways, that’s what stories do for us, especially if you’re navigating a moment in your life that’s quite difficult, a story that tells a similar narrative can really provide that kind of support.

They also help us find meaning because a lot of times in life when we’re going through a chapter that’s difficult or overwhelming, it can feel like, you know, what is the point? Like, why? Why even try? This is too hard. But a story can show you if you stick with a story through from beginning, middle to end, you can see: Oh, this is how it resolved for this other person. Maybe that’s how it will resolve for me. Or it can provide you with strategies. It can provide you with ideas, things you can try when the going gets rough.

KateJ: [00:07:07] When it comes to memoir and, you know, in a lot of ways, that’s what my podcast is.

KateJ: [00:07:14] I mean, it’s you know, when you talk about storytelling, they’re all different ways to talk about that. As I was answering this question, I was sort of imagining books. Right.

KateJ: [00:07:25]  When it comes to books, one of my favorite genres is memoir. And what memoirs do is they hold a mirror up to us. They show us this is a first hand account of something that really happened to a real person. And that brings the story even closer to you, because if you’re reading a fictional account and you’re really having a hard time, it could be quite easy to say, yeah, but somebody made that up. That could never really happen or that couldn’t happen for me.

KateJ: [00:07:59] But with a true story, whether it be a memoir or a documentary or one on one interview with someone who’s talking about their own experience, that makes it possible for us to say, “This actually happened to this person. They actually were in a situation like mine and they actually triumphed.”

Kim: [00:08:23] That’s so beautiful. So many good points in there. so it’s kind of when we see the resolution of the story, that’s not the only way it helps us, but that’s one of the ways that we help say, Oh, the story resolved. And so it kind of gives us hope that that we will have a resolution as well.

KateJ: [00:08:50] Yes, absolutely, hope is a great word. Yeah.

Kim: [00:08:56] Just out of curiosity. Have you have you noticed the difference you’ve been living in Spain for, did you say 20 years?

KateJ: [00:09:05] Almost 20 years, yeah.

Kim: [00:09:08] And you’re kind of a natural storyteller, you told me. And so I just had this point of curiosity: Have you noticed a difference in how stories get resolved between American culture and Spanish culture? And the reason I ask that is because when I think of movies, like comparing American movies and French movies, I think that American movies, they always want the happy ending, everything tied up in a bow. And French movies, it’s more of like this is just real life. Like everything doesn’t get tied up in a bow. But that’s more satisfying to a French audience that things are not all wrapped up. So I was curious about Spanish culture on that side.

KateJ: [00:09:52] You know, I think I might have to take a week to watch some movies and read some books and get back to you on that. My off the cuff answer about that would be that I haven’t really noticed any huge differences, sweeping differences. I would say that, you know, Spanish film, Spanish film is quite different from French film and quite different from American film. But I would say that it’s more European than American, which goes without saying. But what does that mean? Why? What makes a film more European than American? I think it comes back exactly to what you were saying, which is it’s not always the clean, pretty happy ending that American audiences seem to demand. But also, you know, it’s so easy to say, you know, what’s the American style or what’s the Spanish style or what’s the French style? Obviously, within those homogeneous groups, there are all kinds of filmmakers and all kinds of storytellers.

KateJ: [00:11:01] But I do think that I mean, if you think about the greats like Don Quixote. I mean, Don Quixote is like right up there with the Bible when it comes to book sales. It is one of the most popular and classic and well-loved novels in the world in the history of time. And Don Quixote has what all great stories have. It has an amazing setting. It has conflict. It has resolution. So I think in some ways, no matter what culture you’re in, great storytelling is structured in a way that touches the human spirit. And I think the human spirit is… Gosh, I mean, how would you even define that? It goes beyond culture. You know, it’s something very raw and very animal, almost, you know, what we what we need as humans.

Kim: [00:12:11] So narrowing down a little bit from humans in general to expats in particular, how do you think storytelling is important? Is it more important or is it important in a different way for expats or people living outside their culture?

KateJ: [00:12:30] I do think it’s important. I think it’s very important. I think there are a lot of parallels to what I was saying before about how story can help us. But if we look specifically at the expat experience, as you well know, it can be very disorienting. It can be very disorienting for an adult. It can be very disorienting for a child. And so along the same lines as what I was saying before, stories can serve as a guide. They can serve as a roadmap. You know, these are people who have done what you’re doing. They were also disoriented. This is how they handled it and this is how they overcame it.

KateJ: [00:13:13] I think one thing that many people don’t know, even people who’ve experienced moving overseas and living as an expat, is that that kind of change, the fact that it’s disorienting can really come as a surprise.

KateJ: [00:13:32] I mean, even after 20 years living in Spain, I’ve gotten better. I’ve gotten better. But, you know, going back and forth to visit my family in Indiana, I feel disoriented when I get there. I feel disoriented when I come back to Spain. And, you know, it’s something that you get better at with practice. And, you know, after you’re a mom, then you find yourself helping your child, you know, not be so surprised by sort of thinking ahead. And what will you need from here to help you feel comfortable there and what would you like to bring back? But it still takes you by surprise, even even in a small measure. So.

KateJ: [00:14:16] What happens when you either move abroad or you move abroad and then are visiting back in your home country? Is that everything just gets shaken up. I mean, on a very physiological level, a lot of times you’re dealing with jet lag and jet lag is tough. But that’s just the very first, that’s just the very first tough thing.

But it’s almost like, it’s like shaking up a snow globe. Like in Spanish we say everything is “patas arriba,” like everything is upside down. And I mean, if only things were just upside down, you could figure it out. You could just turn the map around. Right.

But it’s not just upside down. It’s just like you don’t even know. Then you go to the next tough thing, which is I don’t have my stuff right. Or I have my stuff, but it’s all in a suitcase. Or OK, now I have my stuff, but now I’m dealing with two different languages. My parents don’t speak Spanish, you know, it’s just, it’s so disorienting. So hearing other people’s stories, as I said, can provide a guide. And it can have a very stabilizing effect.

KateJ: [00:15:32] And I do hope that is one of the outcomes of my podcast: that people will hear these stories and they will find them to be helpful in that way. Depending on what it is they’re navigating, that they will find ideas, they will find tricks, they will find tools.

KateJ: [00:15:55] And I also think, you know, turning storytelling around, we often think about hearing a story when you hear the word storytelling. But we can also, it’s also helpful to write our stories – some people call that journaling. You know, if you especially for a child, maybe not a super young child, but a child who’s an expat or a third culture kid or a cross-cultural kid, to encourage them to put pen to paper and just say, you know: 

• Where do I live now? What is it like here? 
• Where did I live before? What was it like there? 
• Where are we going from here? What do I think it will be like there, what do I hope it will be like there? What have they told me it’s going to be like? 

They’re all of these things provide us with they’re little anchors. They’re like little weights that that calm us down. You know, they keep us from sort of flying away with our own anxiety or fears.

KateJ: [00:17:51] Hearing stories, as you know, people who are living in another culture, traveling in another culture, whether we’re expats or immigrants or tourists, can help us feel not alone.

KateJ: [00:18:06] Once you find yourself in a story, whether that be a book or a documentary or a podcast. Suddenly, you’re not the only person who’s having that experience. It’s like that great song by The Police Message in a Bottle. Where he writes his note that says, I’m all alone, no one understands me. And he throws it out into the ocean and he wakes up and the beach is full of bottles with messages from other people who are feeling the exact same way. That’s what stories give us. They remind us we’re not the only people who are feeling this way.

Kim: [00:18:47] Yeah. Yeah, there’s something that happens in your body when you hear a story that you connect with and it’s just like, you know, your shoulders drop and your stomach relaxes and that just that sense of there are someone like me, there’s someone who understands and not only someone else who understands, but I understand myself suddenly in a new way.

KateJ: [00:19:13] Yes, yes, exactly, exactly.

Kim: [00:19:18] Well. So we’ve been I think a lot of what you’ve talked about so far has to do with hearing other people’s stories and then finding a way to resonate and find markers and find points of hope. What about from the storytelling side? So on your podcast, you have guests come and tell their stories. And is that important for them? I mean, you mentioned that one guest who expressed how important it was for her. Do you think that that applies for most people that they find really that it’s a really excellent outlet that they didn’t even realize they needed?

KateJ: [00:20:03] I do, I do. And I have had other guests. Kelly was my most recent guest and she was quite effusive in what she had to say about her experience. But I have had other guests who have made a point of reaching out to me and saying, I don’t think you know what the experience is that you are creating for your guests, and I think it’s important for you to know that. So this is something. This is not the reason I created my podcast, but it’s been a really, really wonderful sort of residual benefit of creating the show. There is something extremely powerful about creating a space for someone else to tell their story.

KateJ: [00:20:53] In the case of my podcast, the space that I’ve created is not only the show itself, it’s the time that we set aside to record. It’s my energy – because I make an effort to make my guests or to to help my guests feel as comfortable and as at ease as possible. But it’s also the fact that I listen with respect and patience and genuine interest to what my guests have to say. And here you can see where the title The Listen comes in. It really is a reminder to myself of – and whoever’s out there listening – that lending an ear is one of the most powerful gifts that we can give to another person. And what we’re giving to them is we give them power.

KateJ: [00:21:45] So often it’s another person who isdefining us, you know, whether we’re a child with a parent, or an employee with a boss, or sort of an unequal relationship where maybe there’s a more dominant partner who’s defining you and sort of giving shape to who you are in the world, but when we can choose the words and share with the world who we are, what we’ve been through … at our own pace and in our own tone, we reclaim a sense of agency and power.

Kim: [00:22:31] That is really powerful. And it goes along really well with what I was talking about, I can’t remember now how much I talked about it in my previous episode, but I definitely put it into the materials of an activity that I prepared for families to do together. And I talked about creating that space to let your kids express whatever is inside. And not trying to fix it. But letting them say it the way they have to say it and then letting it be what it is.

KateJ: [00:23:12] And, you know, I think as a parent, that can be really scary, it’s scary to watch your kids go through something tough and of course, you want them to feel better and of course, you want them to fix it. But I think as a parent, if you can frame it for yourself as “He needs to tell his story. He needs to put words on what it is he’s experiencing.” I think that can be really helpful as a parent because it sort of keeps it from being something personal. You know, it’s just it’s just a little human telling their story.

Kim: [00:23:48] Yeah, yeah, it’s not a reflection on you necessarily, it’s not a complaint about your parenting. It’s this is my story. This is what I have experienced.

Kim: [00:24:11] Looking at that like parent child dynamic, sometimes the kids will come to us and express something and our reaction might be like, well, that’s not really how it happened or that’s not really the perspective that you should have or here, let me help you. Let me help shape just like what you were just saying. But. It’s just a natural part of my personality to see multiple sides to everything. And so it’s easier for me to see that both can be true at the same time. But how do you define what in a story is true, quote unquote, “true?” And is that actually important or not?

KateJ: [00:24:58] Well, it’s a great question, it’s a great question. I’m not sure we ever can define, you know, in black and white terms what’s true and what’s not true. I love that you highlighted how you’re able to see many different perspectives and how that comes naturally to you, and that’s why you’re so good at what you do.

KateJ: [00:25:21] In my experience, every story is really a collection of several different stories, each story being a different perspective. Like the sound and the fury, the novel, the sound and the fury, which features various different narratives. You know, there’s a single story, a single truth, but it’s splintered into several different narratives, all of which are true. They’re all true because they were experienced by and then expressed by people who participated in that experience, so in that sense, they’re all true.

KateJ: [00:26:05] And then, of course, there’s that famous Japanese film whose name I can never remember. But there are all these different, you know, narratives, all these different people who participated in a central event who then tell that story from their point of view.

KateJ: [00:26:18] So I think there’s a real lesson to be learned here, both for parents and kids, I mean, for people in general, which is that remembering that stories are subjective can help us remember that our experience of life is also subjective. I mean, it’s a great subject.There’s so much here and it’s so worthy of our time. But it sort of goes back to what you were saying about this exercise that you developed for parents and children. It’s really beneficial to both. I mean, I think as parents, we’re always like, oh, what can I find that will be helpful for my kid? This exercise in particular and others is going to be helpful for your child. But it’s also helpful for parents because it reminds us that, you know, there’s a lot going on and none of it is wrong, even if it’s some of it is hard.

KateJ: [00:27:23]  I do think it’s our job as parents to remind our children that there’s more than one one perspective and that they you know, it’s worth taking a look at. Well, how do you think your teacher felt? Well, how do you think that other kid felt? I mean, I say that to my kid every day, you know? And I think it’s important that he have that voice in his life. But it’s also important. It’s also important for us as parents to remember. Yes. And one of those perspectives is my kid’s perspective.

KateJ: [00:27:58] You know, even if I’m saying how did your teacher react, that doesn’t discount how my child felt. You know, it was tough.

Kim: [00:28:14] I was thinking about my grandmother. She was one of six sisters. And it was so interesting sometimes to hear my grandmother tell stories about their childhood or something that happened decades ago, and she would tell a story very clearly. This is exactly how it happened: da-ta-da-da-da-da-da. And then you might get one of the other sisters to say, no, that’s not what happened at all. And then they would tell a story. It was like this, da-ta-da-da-da-da-da. And then one of the other sisters would say, no, no, no, no, you’re both wrong. This is how it happened: da-ta-da…. 

Kim: [00:28:55] It was just so fun. It’s such a lesson in how memory is malleable. You can’t count on it to be the true reflection, exactly. But I really like what you said about how our experience of life is subjective and we can shape it a bit.

Kim: [00:29:25] And I love that if you combine that with journalling, OK, this is my perspective today, and I can come back decades later and see what my perspective was. And I can also have a new perspective based on my evolving life experience, where I have kind of shaped those memories into a narrative that may be different from how I thought of it at the time.

KateJ: [00:29:48] Right, right. And memory is such an important piece here, you said it, I remember. You know, you mentioned your grandma and in my grandma’s case, I remember that when my grandfather died many years ago now, but when my grandfather died, her energy, when she talked about my grandfather, was consistently, consistently positive. She didn’t have a single negative thing to say about my grandpa after he died and, you know, they were married until he died. So they had a long marriage. But as with any long marriage, there were moments that were difficult. And even as a child, I witnessed some of them. So I know that it wasn’t all positive. But after he died, it was almost like there was part of her subconscious that was aware that she had power over how she was going to remember him. And so she sort of flipped into this mode of I’m only. You know, I’m going to emphasize the positive parts. Those are the parts I’m going to play up, because those are the parts I want to remember. 

And I think that’s pretty common with widows. She’s not the only widow that I have known who does that. But, you know, those are stories we tell ourselves. We also have power over the stories we tell ourselves and which stories to tell ourselves.

Kim: [00:31:24] So that’s an interesting point, which stories do we tell ourselves? Do you have any pointers on how can we choose? Not just necessarily like shaping our memories, but when we’re telling our stories to other people or to our family members, how do we choose which stories to tell and which details to include?

I have noticed that you are a master at eliciting really fascinating stories from people. I see you put this little prompt on Facebook and then people will come back and respond and every one of the responses just makes me, “oh, I want to know more!” I want to know more, and I want to read the whole thing. And I think that you definitely elicit that somehow. But then how can we help ourselves choose which stories to tell?

KateJ: [00:32:22] Well, first of all, that is one of the highest compliments I’ve received, that people want to tell me their stories. 

I think every person has a story to tell. So that is key. You know, if you want to hear people’s stories, you first need to be in that space of “if you have a story to tell I want to hear it.” People can pick up on that. You know, they know if you’re open to it or not, I think.

KateJ: [00:32:59] I really believe that every single person has a story to tell, and I think everybody wants to tell their story once they see the opportunity to tell it. In the context of my podcast, I see this as a responsibility that I have to draw my guests out with the right questions. I really believe that if I can ask the right questions, if I can find the right words, I will be able to elicit the stories and memories that they’re most excited to talk about.

KateJ: [00:33:36] Another way of looking at this question is how I choose my guests, because not everyone is an ideal candidate for being on the show. I try to invite people on my show whose stories are particularly compelling and who will, in sharing their stories, will inspire my listeners. You might be swept back to memories of your own experiences or you might be led to take steps to start your own adventure. But whatever the case, the idea is to choose guests whose stories are compelling and interesting and thought provoking and who will inspire my listeners to find hope and meaning in their own lives.

KateJ: [00:34:24] Now, that’s in the context of my podcast. I just want to backpedal a little bit and ask you, because I don’t think I just answered your question, can you ask the question again?

Kim: [00:34:34] Well, I was wondering, as we go about everyday life and we come upon opportunities to tell a story in a lot of different contexts, sometimes it’s when you’re meeting a new person and they say, oh, tell me about yourself or. Maybe it’s, “What did you do this last weekend?” Or, “Hey, what’s new, what’s going on?” And you’re trying to catch up somebody. Or you’ve gone back to a visit to your home country and they want to know, “What is it like living over there?” So just wondering, how do you pick which stories to tell?

KateJ: [00:35:14] Well, this is a great question, Kim, I’m so glad I asked you to repeat it. 

I think as people – and I’ll go beyond that and say as women – I think we often shoot ourselves in the foot before we even start talking by thinking that people don’t really want to hear what we have to say.

KateJ: [00:35:37] When someone says, “how are you?” we all say, “fine.” Why do we say fine? Because.

Kim: [00:35:45] Well, that’s the greeting, that’s just our standard greeting, it’s culturally acceptable.

KateJ: [00:35:51] Well, yeah, I mean, it’s our standard greeting because it’s culturally acceptable and it’s culturally acceptable, because if you look at the inverse, telling someone you have a headache when you just ran into them on the street is not culturally culturally acceptable or sharing with them that, you know, fill in the blank. There are lots of things that are inappropriate culturally to share with someone when they’ve just simply asked you, how are you?

KateJ: [00:36:21] But I think there’s some wiggle room there, you know, there’s of course, there’s nothing wrong with answering fine. When someone says, how are you? Sometimes that is the most appropriate answer and sometimes we’re fine. You know, sometimes that’s the truth. But I do think it’s important to keep in mind and also kind of know your audience, like there are people that want to hear what you have to say and there are people who maybe don’t have time for it or you don’t have that kind of relationship yet. 

But a lot of people really want to hear. They really want to hear what you have to say. They want to know what is it like to live in Oman? What is that like? I’ve never been to that part of the world. Tell me about the temperature. Tell me about the language. Tell me about the supermarket. Tell me about your kids schools. I want to hear all about that stuff. But I think sometimes we don’t allow ourselves to share because we just assume that other people don’t want to hear it.

KateJ: [00:37:27] So I would say that’s the first step in. What do you share? Assume that other people, if they’ve asked you, then they want to know.

Kim: [00:37:37] That’s a good reminder.

Kim: [00:37:48] Since my audience is parents and people working with kids, I’m just curious if you have any examples of how you use storytelling in your parenting? Because you did say it comes naturally. I don’t think I use storytelling very much in my parenting. So I’m just kind of curious to see what that might look like for you if if you have anything that comes to mind.

KateJ: [00:38:16] Well, it’s funny, I never really thought of storytelling as a parenting tool, per se, but I do tell a lot of stories. I mean, I love to tell stories. I was raised with people who tell stories. I gravitate toward people who tell stories. And I mean, I went to theater school, so I studied how to tell stories. I now have my podcast, which is all about telling stories. So I do naturally on a day to day basis, I share lots of memories and experiences from my own life. And I suspect I do this subconsciously to provide my son with context and experiences and ideas as he makes his own decisions. And, you know, every year gets older and moves out into the world as an individual. He’s 13 now just so you know.

KateJ: [00:39:10] One example of this would be music. I studied piano from the time I was a very little girl and I got very serious about piano. I studied from the time I was six to the time I was 14 at the time when I stopped studying piano, it wasn’t because I left music behind. It was because I was so busy with choir and play practice that I had to make some decisions. And so then I kind of morphed into a different kind of music and theater. And then I went to school for theater and then and then I moved into a career as a professional actress and singer. So when my son was little, I really wanted him to love music as I do. And in fact, he does love music. He loves to deejay. He loves to compose. He loves to listen to electronic music. That’s his thing. And he did study piano, but he never fell in love with it and. 

In telling him stories of my own experiences with music, I think we both learned a lot. He learned about who I was as a younger person and sort of how I came to be where I am and who I am and how I am. But instead of somehow convincing him to follow in my footsteps, which I think may have been, you know, on a certain level of my conscious, what I was what I was going for. I think what I taught both of us through telling him these stories is that we’re different. We’re different people. That I have my tastes, he has his tastes, and we will both forge our own paths in each of our lifetimes. So in telling our stories, we’re not only teaching other people, we’re teaching ourselves and. we have to remember to listen to ourselves as well.

Kim: [00:41:16] Oh, OK. Oh, my gosh, you have dropped a lot of little nuggets and little bombs that I need to go back and listen to again and ponder for a while. Well, that’s great.

Kim: [00:41:33] So tell me, what do you like to do for fun?

KateJ: [00:41:41] Well, I love to read, although a couple of years ago I got myself I mean, many, many years ago when I lived in New York, I received The New Yorker every week. And that was like my subway reading material because a magazine is so light. And so it was always in my backpack, always reading. And I could, I don’t know if it was easy, but I could pretty consistently get through The New Yorker every week and have a different book on my bedside table. And now I don’t know if it’s because of Netflix or motherhood or work, but it’s like all I can do to get through The New Yorker every week. And I have a bunch of books winking at me on the bookshelf that I still haven’t gotten to. So that’s where I am with reading. I love to do puzzles. Like jigsaw puzzles. But I also love Sudoku and I love all kinds of puzzles, jigsaw puzzles, word puzzles, no puzzles. And I’ve always been like that. I used to get Games magazine when I was a kid.

Kim: [00:43:09] Yes, that’s common in our house as well.

KateJ: [00:43:12] Does it does it still exist Games Magazine?

Kim: [00:43:14] Yeah.

KateJ: [00:43:15] Oh, I have to look into that again.

Kim: [00:43:17] Yeah, it comes in like once or twice a year, we get one in a package from the US.

KateJ: [00:43:24] Ok, OK. I also really love to paint, but I’m not very good at painting, and so I recently discovered paint by number and I kind of love it. Yeah.

Kim: [00:43:39] Oh, that’s fun. I should probably try that.

KateJ: [00:43:41] And then I love to walk, I love to go for a walk every day, and I have my little route through my neighborhood. And I met my husband hiking. So walking and hiking is something that I love and that’s very close to my heart.

Kim: [00:43:57] That’s great. Well, is there anything else that you wanted to add that we didn’t get to?

KateJ: [00:44:05] Well, in addition to accessing the podcast through our website, which is theLISTENpodcast.com and, listening to the podcast on various streaming sites, we’re on Apple podcasts, Spotify, SoundCloud. We also have a Facebook group for fans of the podcast. It’s called the Listener Podcast Community, so people who heard people whose ears perked up when you were talking about, oh, she asks questions and people chime in with their own stories. That’s happening in the Facebook group for fans of the podcast. So I would love to welcome any of your listeners who are eager to get in there and listen to stories and tell stories.

Kim: [00:44:58] And tell their stories. Yeah, it’s fun. And are you looking for advertisers for your podcast?

KateJ: [00:45:06] I am! Anyone who has heard my podcast and thinks that their service or, you know, business or course would be a fit for advertising on the show, I would very much welcome them, welcome them to reach out to me. We can discuss any possibilities there. You know, any kinds of services for people who are living overseas or planning to move overseas, people who are traveling, who are looking for insurance or, you know, advice or strategies. All of these different people would be ideal for advertising on the show.