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Just a heads up about the podcast schedule: I’ve been publishing every 2 weeks until now. The next few episodes might be published more frequently, because I really want you to hear from a few more people before Expat Coach Coalition’s group program starts February 15. It’s called Adapt.Succeed.Together. and combines the best of training and strategies for expats with the community and connection we all need even more right now.

What kind of training and strategies? You might be wondering. Well, the kind that doesn’t happen for most people. We need to change that!

The kind training that’s left out of almost all employer training programs, strategies that help you address the vast array of emotional and relational struggles that DO come up, a program that goes way beyond the timeframe of job orientation. Because as you well know, it takes many months to get settled in and get up to speed so you’re functioning at your normal capacity. And the entire family’s adjustment plays into the adjustment of each individual in the family. 

So be watching for more details in the next couple of weeks.

Let’s get on to today’s episode.

Kim: I’m so happy to have you here today, Angela.

Angela: Thanks for inviting me.

Kim: We’re in a series of episodes where we’ve been talking about a variety of major life transitions, situations that take some extra energy and care. So we’re talking about birth, and death, and menopause, and empty nest. And, of course, moving country is the one that everyone who’s listening is familiar with and shares, no matter what stage of family life they’re in.

My guest today is Angela Warm, and we have a lot in common. We both have a background in environmental consulting. We both have an interest in reducing the toxic load in the household. We both had some health challenges that came up after moving abroad with young children, and an ongoing interest in healthy eating and living. And Angela has gone on to study a little bit more formally in some of those areas and is now a certified health coach. And she’s got several seasonal programs and workshops that address immunity, detoxing, household cleaners, and some programs for the different seasons of the weather and how that affects the choices in food and healthy living practices.

I’m really pleased to have you here with me today, Angela, to share some of your expertise. Why don’t we start a Can you tell us just kind of how you got interested in this path of healthy living and health coaching?

Angela: I was always interested in health, but I think my definition of health has evolved over time. I mean, as a teenager and young adult, it was all about counting calories and being thin and being in that kind of world. And but I’ve always been just I would stay conscious of it. At the same time, in my college years, I went and studied environmental science and that brought up a lot of issues around how we grow our food, what kind of chemicals we’re exposed to in the air, and the water, the food. And so that was very enlightening to the point that I knew when I had children, I wanted to make sure they had the best upbringing as far as less chemicals to start their life off with, making sure they’re eating healthy foods and those kind of things. I did get married later in life. So I think the process of marrying later (I always say I waited for the right one so that’s why I waited.) But, you know, we wanted to start a family. And when that didn’t come as easily because I was a bit later in life, it also sent me back, it kind of put my science cap back on. I’m like, what can I do to boost my fertility? Naturally. Not I’m not against going down other routes, but what can I do before we head down that route, you know, to boost. And just reading some information about your body and what it can do was very eye-opening at the same time. So I’ve always had these little triggers along the way of healthy, I would say consciousness and almost like enlightenment. These things you didn’t know, that I feel like everyone should know, you know.

Kim: Yeah.

Angela: But then really, it wasn’t until we did the big move overseas about nine years ago. And my daughter was one and I was pregnant with baby number two. And they talk about those stress factors, you know, like quit your job you love.

Kim: Let’s just do them all at the same time!

Angela: Yeah, let’s do them all at once. Yeah, leave your family, you have a toddler and a baby on the way, move to a country that you don’t speak the language or know a single soul. And, oh, my gosh, I just found myself so exhausted. The family was getting sick so often. I was surviving off of like I had actually never been a coffee drinker before, moving overseas and then having two children pretty close in age, living overseas. I was just, you know, loving and I love the coffee here. It tastes much better than back in the U.S. here in Switzerland, where there’s an abundance of cheese and chocolate. How how the Swiss stay so thin and active, it’s surprising to me,

Kim: This is a question, yes.

Angela: Well, I do have a little theory about that, but we can come back to that, but yeah. So just going back to that mom exhaustion, that brain fog, like you’re tired, you’re not taking care of yourself. That’s really what prompted me – really selfishly – to go back and get my health coaching certification. And I’ve done this in the past where I do things selfishly, you know, like I went and got my yoga teacher training many years ago when I was younger because I wanted to… I love learning more about the intricacies and the anatomy and physiology of it. It wasn’t that I wanted to teach yoga. I just wanted – I like that knowledge to learn how to do the poses. And I enjoyed it.

And it was that way with health coaching. And really opened my eyes to so many different avenues of your health, it’s not just about diet and exercise, you know, it’s a lot about self care and stress management and sleep. And I mean, the door is wide open on all these factors that help you stay healthy. And what I realized as I was getting my health coaching certification, again, I didn’t go in saying I’m going to be a health coach. I did it like I want to take care of my family. I want to stop being exhausted, and I want to be a better example to my family and make sure they’re getting the right amount of nutrition or health support.

But it did trigger me to be like, oh, this is information everybody should know. And it really started like friends would ask me questions, oh, what are you doing to feed your family? Like, why are your kids getting a warm breakfast instead of a bowl of cereal or, you know. We all know someone who complains about a health concern or that they have headaches all the time or are tired all the time. And it was just a matter of like helping a few friends. And then it the circle expanded bigger and bigger. And I was like, even my husband’s like, why don’t you just start health coaching? And I was like, oh, I guess I could do that. And that’s really where it started, was just helping other people, friends in my little close circle. And then it expanded out to others. And yeah, it’s just it’s great too, because it does work well as an expat to be able to fit my work schedule around the kids’ schedule, which isn’t that easy right now.

Kim: Yeah, absolutely. How long have you been doing these programs that you offer?

Angela: Yeah, it has evolved over. I mean, when I first started, I mean, I really only got my health coaching certification about three years ago. And so I was doing the one on one coaching and like I said, helping friends and family members. And then I really started noticing that I really like a seasonal focus to how I approach things, because it’s not all about, oh, let’s just get healthy all at once. You know, I feel like each season we have different needs. And this was new to me. I’m a Florida girl. I grew I was born and raised in Florida, sunny Florida, where it’s summer all the time.

Kim: You have one season, yeah.

Angela: Yes, and we have an abundance of food that you have at your fingertips all the time too, which we don’t have in other countries. You don’t have pumpkin every day and we don’t even have canned pumpkin here, you know?

Kim: Yeah, doesn’t that open your eyes to how artificial the food supply in the United States is? Because you have everything at your fingertips all the time and you completely lose track that there’s any seasonality to food, and then you move to another country where they eat seasonal food and it tastes so much better because it’s real food. It’s not cardboard.

Angela: I know I mean. It’s also the most nutrient dense at the time it should be grown. So like, you know, and here we are in the fall. This is the time for squash and pumpkins and the root vegetables. And it’s not only more nutritious, it’s what our bodies need this time of year. That’s why they’re abundant. So it was very eye-opening to me. And I find it so fascinating. It’s also we need those nutrients to get us through the next phase, which is the winter months. So helping our immune system with all your, you know, the vegetables that have vitamin C and vitamin A and all the different root vegetables have.

So, yeah, I started really looking at it from a seasonal perspective and and I feel like it’s also easier for people to bite off small chunks when it comes to their health. So, like, if you can focus on the next three months, what do you need to kind of boost your immunity, whether it’s to get you through the winter? It’s just that’s really different than what you need in the summer. You know, in the summer we can drink smoothies all day or eat cold salads and watermelon. But in the winter, that’s not what we need. We need the more nourishing, the warm comfort foods, the soups, the broth, the root vegetables.

And that’s really how I started doing the group program. So let’s let’s get you through this, you know, these next three months. And like I said, just biting it off in small chunks and looking at your health from a seasonal perspective, kind of like we do. I don’t know what it’s like for everybody, all your listeners. But like here in Switzerland, it was very eye opening to… We have to change our tires twice a year on our car.

Kim: Oh.

Angela: We have to have winter tires now. And it’s like a rule. It’s a hard and fast rule. So I tell people, hey, you’re changing the tires on your car. Let’s change your health and how we’re approaching our health for the next few months as well.

Kim: I like that.

Angela: That we’re safer. Healthier, yeah.

Kim: Yeah, and I think that what I have observed in myself, when I take on a new challenge, a new project, and I’m trying to build a new habit… About three months in is when my attention starts to fade. It’s not new and exciting and holding my attention in the same way anymore. And so I think then to kind of switch focus then helps me renew my attention and focus.

Angela: Yeah, because I have I have some clients who come back every couple of months and join, I do both group programs and one to one coaching around the seasons. But yeah, we have people who are like, oh, I really like the one in the fall or the spring. So I’m going to join the fall when it just helps people stay on track. But I also think the group accountability, like being with other people, helps people kind of maintain their path and accountability.

Kim: I agree, yeah, there’s benefits to one on one and there’s different benefits to group. Now that you’ve been through a few cycles of different seasons and worked with a number of different people, are there some trends or patterns that you’ve seen that you can tell us about?

Angela: For women in general, I mean, this goes for men, too, I think we’ve been on this path, we tend to steer away from protein. And it’s interesting to me how important it is for the again, going back to we talk about the different seasons, but it’s so important for your immune system. And I’m talking like whether you get, you know, your source of protein via animal protein or plant protein, as long as you’re getting a good source of protein, it’s so important. And we need a lot of it, especially women in our late forties going into the that menopause age. Holy cow. It makes a huge difference. And not just our like our physical health, but like our mental health as well. Like we need probably I mean, there’s been recommendations that I’ve seen, 70 to 100 grams of protein a day.

Kim: Ok, translate that, I don’t eat in terms of grams, so help me like fist size or cups. I know a lot of people don’t do cups, so.

Angela: Yeah, I mean, it depends on what sort of protein you’re getting, but, you know, but you need a lot of it and I think more than most people are.

Kim: Ok, so if it were beans, approximately, how much would that be for beans?

Angela: I mean, a cup of beans is probably like in the 10 to 15 grams of protein range.

Kim: Ok, so that’s a lot of cups of beans.

Angela: Yeah,

Kim: Ok.

Angela: So getting a good variety of protein, because when we were in the first phases of covid, I was having some anxiety and stress, like not being able to sleep, like getting up at like 3:00 a.m. And I was like, this is really unusual for me. And I talked to another friend who’s a health coach as well, and she said, are you getting enough protein? And I said, Oh, I thought I was. We eat eggs. We try and get a balance of lentils and different things. And she said, you’re not getting enough. I was like, wow. And as soon as I upped my protein levels, like in the morning, in the afternoon, really focused on it, I was back to sleeping better and not having that kind of stress, anxiety. So it’s super important. It’s also super important for your immune system to get make sure you’re getting enough, because I think even I’m guilty of it. Like in the past, I’ve been a vegetarian for years and before, but I never thought about how important it is to get your protein again, whether it’s plant or animal and how it impacts your overall health.

Kim: Would you say that most people who are eating meat regularly are getting plenty of protein, or not necessarily?

Angela: Yeah, it just depends on the amount and what kind I mean, if you’re I think if you’re eating, you’re saying animal meat?

Kim: Yeah.

Angela: Like animal protein, I would think so. But then again, as a health coach, you also need a lot of the other nutrients as well to make it a well-balanced.

Kim: Right, and that’s my other question was, OK, get more protein might be something that somebody needs to focus on. But then what? Is there anything in particular that you pair with? Get more protein and you need this other thing to go with it at the same time to make sure that you’re utilizing it well?

Angela: And this is the other thing I’ve noticed, like you were talking about trends, is we’re not getting enough healthy fats. And you need it when you’re eating the vegetables or the protein to absorb those minerals and nutrients. It’s so important. People talk about, oh, I eat smoothies every day. OK, well, what’s in them? Let’s look. Well, if you’re just putting fruit and some coconut water. Yeah. You’re getting a big rush of maybe a few vitamins. But if there’s not a healthy fat and healthy protein in there, it’s not a balanced. You’re not going to get the absorption from all those nutrients and you’re getting a big blood sugar spike. So getting, even if it’s like adding a little bit of nut butter to your smoothie, or salad – beans, whatever it is, it’s just that it’s all about, you know, balance and making sure you get that variety throughout your meals.

Kim: Ok, what else, other trends or patterns? You said people were kind of obsessed with calories and exercise.

Angela: Yeah, that kind of I think I mentioned it when I first started, I remember I don’t know how many of your listeners are from the US, but I grew up as a teenager and in my early 20s watching what I eat and eating like Lean Cuisines because they were like under 300 calories.

Kim: Oh man. What the advertisers have done to us.

Angela: Exactly, and now I realize looking back, oh, that was so dangerous because I remember I was so hungry. Because 1, it was full of chemicals, because it’s all this like frozen processed food, but there was hardly any nutrients in it. So, yeah, I got 300 calories, but I was starving and ended up eating something probably more horrible later because I wasn’t getting that good source of nutrients.

So I mean my philosophy now is just eat better, not less food. Like to me you know the diet industry has done us a huge disservice by counting calories or watching this or watching that, when really we just kind of need to get back to basics.

I always tell a funny story, like when we moved overseas, I, I didn’t know how to make pancakes from scratch because pancakes always came from a box in the US. And I was like I literally had people sending me boxes of like a pancake mix at a ridiculous amount of money. And then it’s like open a cookbook. Google it online. And now I’m like the pancake queen and I make such healthy pancakes from scratch. It doesn’t take any longer. You’re just throwing a few ingredients together. But I know that I’m getting a lot more nutrients that way because 1, it doesn’t come from the box. But 2, it’s you know, it’s also made with lots of love and fun with the kids and stuff. So, yeah, I mean, that’s the big thing that I think that’s been really eye-opening.

I think lots of people are very overwhelmed by the health industry. Like, you shouldn’t eat this. You should eat that. Well, a year ago you couldn’t eat butter, but now you should eat. You know, it’s just this constant doubting of it.

Kim: Exactly, yes, there are so many recommendations that come out as the new rule, and it’s presented as the latest and greatest scientific evidence based information. And then a couple of years later, we find out that, well, maybe we didn’t know as much as we thought. And let’s go back to just, grandma’s cooking wasn’t so bad after all.

Angela: Yeah.

Kim: And yeah, it is it’s frustrating if you’re trying to learn it all.

Angela: Yeah, and that’s what I try and take people back is like I mean, I think a lot of women or families maybe just need to go back to having to, you know, just learning how to cook simply. And it doesn’t have to take hours and hours in the kitchen. You can definitely make something on the fly without too much hassle. I do in part of my program offers I always have like a seasonal health healthy meal plans in there. I try and always make them like under 30 minutes, really healthy, delicious. Maybe on the weekends you have a little more time to spend a little bit more in the kitchen. You can do that. But that’s super important, I think.

Kim: Are there things that you think people do already know that they’ve just kind of forgotten?

Angela: Yes, I think for sure, and I think people have this like they don’t really like vegetables or they’ve kind of I mean, I think we all know we should be eating more healthy vegetables, but we it tends to be like this little corner of our plate is this much vegetables. So really getting back to how to love … 1, how to cook them, how to prepare them. So they’re delicious. But making sure that your plate, when you sit down for a meal is a good majority of that and that the protein and the carbs are kind of the smaller side items.

In health coaching, there’s this theory called crowding out, and it’s kind of interesting because it applies to your plate – like your physical plate – but it also applies to life in general. If you can fill your plate with the good nutrients that you need, we all I think we all know we need lots of healthy vegetables in a variety of them. Basically, what it does, it crowds out your cravings for other things. So if you’re getting a good source of nutrients from a variety of vegetables, then you’re not so tempted to go eat sweets or carbs or the things that aren’t so good for you. So they say it’s crowding out the bad stuff, but you really have to get the nutrients first in order for that to work.

And the same thing applies off the plate. If your life is, if you live a stressful, if you’re not getting enough sleep or you’re in a bad relationship, you tend to gravitate towards, again, back to sweets, you know, things that kind of fill that emotional void that you’re looking for. So if you can also do this, I say get off your plate with your life, like do those things that you love, whether it’s creativity, having friends, forming those friendships, which are hard sometimes as an expat, and making your life feel rich enough and nutrient filled from the inside, then you’re not as tempted to go in those kind of bad habit directions. If that makes sense.

Kim: Yeah, that’s so interesting. I definitely see when I when I do focus on eating enough and eating the healthy foods, within about a week, my cravings have shifted. So that’s great. But I have, like you said, doing the things in your life that give you satisfaction. I found sometimes when I’m kind of roaming around the house, especially roaming around the kitchen, just having that snacky munchy feeling, if I stop and think about what’s really going on, sometimes I realize that I’m just, I’m looking for something big and crunchy that I have to chew on a lot because I wanted to… Like maybe I’m looking for walnuts or something substantial like that. And then sometimes I realize it’s because I haven’t been chewing on something meaningful in my life and diving into a project that really means something to me. And then when I realize that and I go, oh, I need to go and work on that thing, that excites me. And then the craving goes away. Really interesting.

Angela: It is amazing because I think I try and tell that with my clients as well, it’s like before you go fulfill that craving or whatever it is, 1, drink a glass of water, because a lot of times we’re dehydrated, you know, and it causes us to have sweet, sweeter carb cravings. But 2, ask yourselves, just like you’ve done, what is it that I really need? You know, what is it that you’re, do you really need this snack or that? Or is it something I need to go for a walk, you know, I need to go for a, call a friend. I need some emotional support. Or I need a hug even, is something that we all can benefit from. So, yeah, looking at it and being in tune with your body is really important. So it’s good that you.

Kim: It’s hard. It’s hard to stop yourself and it’s hard to ask that question because sometimes the answer isn’t that pleasant.

Angela: No. I recognize that I’m an emotional eater, and it’s not so much from a sadness or. Mine’s more like when I’m stressed and I have a thousand things to do, it’s good, it grounds me.

Kim: It makes you stop.

Angela: Yeah, and it makes me stop and I was like, OK, I can do this or they can do this. But I recognize it now and have healthy snacks on hand or stop and be like, OK, maybe just spend a half an hour focusing on this task you have at hand and then take a break, drink water, tea, whatever it is, and focus on other things.

Kim: Yeah, earlier you mentioned self care. How do you define self care? Because I find that term to be kind of I don’t want to say loaded, but I do want to say maybe misunderstood or misconstrued. I think people maybe have a hard time acting on self care because they don’t have a clear idea of what it means in their own life.

Angela: And that’s an absolutely good point, I think a lot of people look at it as nebulous or selfish, like they shouldn’t be doing things for themselves. But for me personally and how I work with my clients is find it, find what it is that makes you happy, gives you that little spark of joy. Like for me, I enjoy reading. I enjoy going for a walk with my family. We really enjoy doing outdoor activities. And just making sure you can incorporate those things into your life.

I also work with my clients to encourage them and make sure they’re going to bed, not early, but what works for them just so they’re getting the right amount of sleep. So it’s really I mean, it’s very individualistic, but. Caring about yourself enough to want to get a good night’s sleep or want to do those things that we all say, oh, I don’t have time to read a book or call a friend or whatever it is that gives you that little spark of joy.

Kim: Yeah, and those little sparks make so much difference. I was just talking with a client earlier this week about: What can you do in five minutes? And we came up with a long list of things you can do in five minutes that change your mood and give you satisfaction. Now for her, it was really eye opening. And I think we often don’t think about it that way.

Angela: No, I mean, it doesn’t have to be like, doesn’t have to be hours at the spa, or a warm bath or, you know, those kind of things we tend to associate it with. It can be absolutely a five minute. You can just have a nap on the couch and sometimes have been for some people. And like I said, I’m a big one for I know that getting my heart rate up helps me a lot, both physically but mentally as well. When I’m tired, OK, let’s just go for a quick walk around the block or play some ball with the kids, or do something that gets everybody kind of out in the fresh air and different perspective.

So, yeah, it’s very different for everyone, but important to find out what that is for each person and make it part, whether it’s simple, if you can only get like you said, five minutes a day or schedule a little bit longer on the weekends or something. But it’s also I mean, it’s also like a partnership. I know as the main caregiver for my kids and the business woman, it’s hard to squeeze that time in. But making it kind of like you’re saying, make it a habit to spend five minutes in the morning just relaxing, maybe practicing some sort of gratitude or, or setting your intentions for the day can be not that time intensive, but just setting the tone. OK, what do I want to be today? What do I want to see happen today? Those kind of things can make a big difference.

Kim: What have you seen in people when they move abroad or they move to a new country and then there’s some health challenges or things related to their relationship with health and nutrition and medical care, things like that, that catch them by surprise?

Angela: It really depends on what country you move to. A good example is like I had my first child in the US. We were very lucky. There was no complications or anything. And but the crazy thing about the US compared to having my second child here in Switzerland was you are in and out of the hospital in 48 hours in the US. Like, they’re like, all right, you’re done. Get out of here. And here you are taking this newborn baby home like, oh, my God.

Kim: Yeah, and it’s all about insurance, it’s just about the cost of medical care and the insurance company has devised this is how much we’ll pay. Therefore, they’re going to get you out and free up another bed. But it gives us the impression that you’re ready to go home and start taking care of a baby and go back to taking care of the house and doing all the things.

Angela: Yeah, I mean, I was so. I always say I’m going to write a short book but write a book about the differences, because having a child here in Switzerland like you’re in the hospital for a week. You have this beautiful buffet breakfast every morning like it was I always joke with my husband was like, I’d have a third child just to go spend a week in the hospital here just because it is so lovely. It’s such a lovely experience and they’re very nurturing. They come check on you after you’re home. I mean, that’s huge. But kind of going back to your question again, I think it depends on where you come from and where you end up. But I think it’s always a bit unsettling to not know what the health care is going to be like or even. Even here in Switzerland as much as I say it’s great, they’re very much like I don’t want to say hands off. But when you go to the doctor, they’re like, are you OK with this regiment that we’re going to explain to you or this protocol? And you’re like, yeah, you’re the expert. But in the US, it was more like, you’re going to do this, this and this, and that’s it. And there’s no other options. And you’re like, OK, you know, I mean, it’s this trust factor you have with, you know, the doctors and the health care system. But I think moving overseas, I know for a lot of people, one, I mean, there’s always a cultural difference, but also even the language is and could be an issue or, you know, there’s so many things.

Kim: So are you saying in Switzerland they put more responsibility in your hands and it’s more of a partnership and they ask your permission for how do you want to proceed with your body or are you saying that it’s a different sense of authority?

Angela: A little bit of both, because, I mean, the doctors like I’m going to recommend this, this and this, and they literally ask you, are you OK with this? And you’re like, OK, yeah. That’s you know, like I trust that you’re making the right decision. Here in the US there was just no question about, there you don’t question the doctors there. I mean, you can question them. You know, they might even look into other options for you, that kind of thing. But yeah.

Kim: Yeah, that is so interesting to hear you compare it from that perspective, because … and I agree that in the US some doctors do get offended and they bristle a little bit if you ask too many questions. But going from the US, where I have the expectation that I can ask questions and I can ask for more information and they’ll give it to me easily. Then going to cultures where you do not question the doctor. Like if you have a question, you just leave it and you go get a second opinion. That’s how you get more information.

Angela: Oh, interesting.

Kim: Yeah, so it’s like going so if the US were in the middle, then Switzerland on one side and then Thai culture and then in Oman, it’s just a different interaction. And the doctors have more authority in these cultures and you’re not supposed to question.

Angela: I mean, I only have the US and here in Switzerland to compare to, but. As a health coach, I still take my kids to doctors. I trust doctors, I’m not like anti doctor. But I also know that doctors don’t have a lot of experience or training or college in the areas of nutrition or lifestyle adjustments and those kind of things. So their main goal is to treat your symptoms and get you kind of back out the door. And I’m not saying that they rush you out. But that’s what I love about coaching and health coaching, is you get to sit down and really talk to someone and look at your body from a very holistic point of view.

I mean, I’m doing a community group program right now, and people were amazed at how damaging it is to not get enough sleep. And so I’m telling them, you can eat as healthy as you want. You can be eating kale salads every day and your macha smoothies or whatever. But if you are not getting the right amount of sleep, which for most people is seven to eight hours, you might as well be smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. Like that’s how damaging it is to your your health and.

Kim: It takes years off.

Angela: Yeah, and they were just like, wow. But no doctor is going to tell you that. No doctor says if you come in all tired and groggy, how are you sleeping? How is? They’re just going to maybe give you a sleeping pill or. But what is the… Let’s look at everything from a big holistic point of view. There’s all these factors that come into play. Are you not eating the right foods to help you or you’re not getting the right amount of exercise also to help you sleep? So there’s just so many factors involved.

Kim: I feel like going to the doctor is good if you need to reduce disease, they’ll help treat the disease. They’re trained in pathology and they’ll help address that. But if you want to improve your health and go from, you know, kind of average functioning and go towards vitality and optimal functioning, that’s not what the doctors are trained in. So that’s kind of a different field.

Angela: It is. It’s very like I had a like she’s a colleague of mine and a friend of mine and she’s like, what are you doing? Health coaching? You have a degree and you’re so smart and you could be doing so many other things. It was like, I love health coaching. Like I get so much joy out of just making these little tweaks to people’s diet and lifestyle that isn’t overwhelming, doesn’t take more time. And they come back and be like, my whole family has more energy to get through the afternoon, like we’re happier when you have when you just have those basic things. I guess she was also, kind of going back to your original question, people can go to the doctor and get help. And I was like, no, they can’t. I mean, they can, but they’re not going to get the kind of help you get from know health coaching or looking at your health from a big holistic point of view. So I’m a big advocate for that.

Kim: What are some of the things you like to talk about around the toxic load in your household, like your personal care supplies in your household, cleaning supplies? Is that, does that surprise a lot of people?

Angela: It does. I think people don’t realize how that affects your health, because it’s something we’ve done been doing for as long as we can.

Kim: Since the 50s,

Angela: Yeah, I know we have all these different. Yeah, I mean, from our every day skin care products to our makeup to our cleaning products, all of it is a chemical load. And the thing that is shocking to people is that. Yes, the chemicals you buy, the products you buy at the store have a tiny amount of chemicals in them, I mean, depending on what you’re buying, right. But it’s the fact that you’re layering these on top of several other things every day that makes the burden, that creates the toxic overload in your body. And so it’s very eye opening. In fact, this was just our topic last week inside my group program, and we covered. So we covered how to make over your skin care products, how to make over your cleaning products, how to skin care, cleaning, nutrition. I mean, looking at the food we eat, if it’s not all prepackaged and heavily processed or have a lot of additives, those kind of things in it. And I’ve actually worked with clients who are doing everything right. Maybe they’re trying to lose weight. I have like one example, like a lady who is trying to lose weight, exercising, eating right. But was not seeing any change in her weight. And I said, you take a picture of your bathroom for me. And it was just wall to wall, like hundreds of different products.

Kim: Endocrine disruptors.

Angela: Yeah, exactly, and it’s like, so I’m big on using less. So if you need a lotion, just one lotion you like instead of 12 different lotions because you just don’t know the ingredient list in there. And, you know, there’s a whole resources of you can get natural products, but it’s more just reducing that chemical footprint. I teach classes on how to make over your cleaning cabinet because that one’s, it’s so easy to do. And for women, especially, because unfortunately, I don’t know about most of you, but I do most of the cleaning. So I get the brunt of the chemical overload. I mean, as women we do. And so having natural stuff and again, it goes back to that kind of back to basics, back to what your grandmother used, baking soda and vinegar and water and.

Kim: Exactly. Yeah, we’ve had to when we came here and hired a cleaner to come in a couple of times a week and then I said, no, I don’t want you to bring that bottle of stuff in. I want you to use this big giant bottle of vinegar and baking soda. And he gave me a strange look. And so I had to I showed him what to do with it, and he’s happy to do it. But I don’t want that stuff in my cabinet, in the air in my entire house.

Angela: It’s also great because you can give your kids the window spray and they go to town when it’s not like that blue poisonous stuff that would affect their lungs and those kind of things. So my kids love spraying because I use a mix of essential oils, too. So it smells lovely. You know, when you’re spraying it on the windows or using something else for the counter. So those kind of things. Yeah.

Kim: Yeah, I’m kind of sensitive to perfumes in general. I can’t take too much of it. It’s just I don’t know, it doesn’t make me feel very well. But every time I do put on a perfume, which is kind of rare, I’m like, oh, no. Yeah. Fragrances… They are big on the list.

Angela: Yeah it’s the fake fragrances. I mean, the list is long, unfortunately, of, you know, all the chemicals that are in our everyday products and just being able to reduce that. And and, yes, our body is pretty well equipped to remove toxins, but there gets to a point where it just gets overloaded and then your liver, your spleen, they’re just not functioning like they should be. And that’s why I love doing, once a year we do a big like a 30 day detox, removing all the foods and the chemicals, those kind of things. It’s amazing how much more energy people have within a few, a week or 10 days at the most. They’re like, wow, I didn’t even know so.

Kim: So what’s involved in that detox? Is that… When you say detox, are you doing like juicing and that kind of thing, or are you talking about just getting the chemicals out of your house?

Angela: It’s usually like an elimination diet, so we’re just removing things that for some people can cause inflammation like gluten, dairy, sugar. Those are the big ones. Yeah, and it’s people are amazed They’re always nervous, like, oh, I’m going to be hungry. But you’re not. Like there’s natural options to replace those and people do really well on it and they feel so much better. They lose stuck pounds or kilos that have been, like that last five kilos it gets stuck, or something like that. So it’s actually pretty nice and you do well on it.

Kim: Good. What would you say to parents who want to encourage healthier habits with their kids? I know that I’ve gone through some stages where I was very prescriptive and I’m trying to not be so prescriptive with my kids because they need to. They need to see balance, they need to see moderation, and they need to understand the thought processes and the emotional processes that are happening in the choices they make. And so I’m trying to focus on that more. Do you have any tips along those lines?

Angela: Hmm. Yeah, I mean, I think that’s even me, and my kids were little when I, even when I went through health coaching and it was so eye-opening I realized these habits that we start as children that even I had growing up with. Like treats, you know, like, oh, let’s have a treat. I’ve been good today. You know. Even as moms, we tell ourselves that. Oh, I had a hard day. Let me reward myself with, like, a bowl of ice cream or something. And so trying to – and this is a hard one, those ingrained kind of subconscious beliefs that we’re all grown up with. And helping the kids also like you’re saying, make their own decisions. For us in our home and what I’ve seen is helpful, like if my kids come and say, can I have a treat? I was like, yes, there’s a whole bowl of fruit right there. You know, you can have that. And it’s taken time. But they realize that, OK, now I can have fruit. And I’m not saying, I don’t deprive my kids of sweets, like they can have them in moderation. But going back to what you’re saying, for me, it’s really about being a good example, you know, and having those healthy options on hand.

I’ve mentioned before, like when we moved to Switzerland, it was like we were going through bottles of Nutella like crazy because it was like, oh, my God, there’s such, you know, I mean, I know they have it in the States, too, but I never eat it in the States. So it’s just something like everybody eats here and like abundance of chocolate. And then I just realized one day after taking the recycling out, I was like, whoa, we’re eating way too much of these things that aren’t really healthy for us. And there’s healthier options out there.

It’s funny in our family because I have one son who was very picky eater and my daughter who eats anything you put in front of her. So it was hard to get that balance, you know, of not, of making sure my son’s getting a good amount of nutrients. For us we didn’t have really hard rules other than you have to at least have one bite. You have to try it. And I will tell you, it took years. It really did. And that’s what I try and tell my clients who have picky eater kids: just don’t give up. Like, please keep trying because their taste really does change. Like he, now my son is eight and he will eat almost anything. He might not love it like the rest of us do, but he will actually consume it now and not throw a fit or raise a big stink about it. But he was a challenging one, because he I mean, we’re lucky because he actually really loved raw vegetables. So you could, like, cut up carrots or peppers or cucumbers and he would he would go to town. But he would never, he never liked cooked vegetables. And we’re a big family of like we love making like big one pot of stew or something where everything’s, like a curry or lentils. And he was just like uh-uhh.

Kim: You’re making me hungry.

Angela: Yeah, He’s come around after a few years. So I think 1, leading by example and having healthy options on hand and making it not stressful around the dinner table. I mean, that’s that’s a big one because I think a lot of us grow up with those kind of expectations or those beliefs that I have to. You know, if I eat this, I get a treat or if I clean my plate, this happens and let’s just eat because it’s good for our bodies, it’s the right thing to do.

Kim: Yeah, and we have such an expectation that celebration means sugary food.

Angela: Yeah, and overconsumption, yeah.

Kim: I remember when my mom brought to the table, literally, this idea that for Thanksgiving and Christmas, we didn’t have to stuff ourselves, like let’s just eat a normal meal’s worth of food and then you leave the table actually feeling good, not feeling in pain. What a revolutionary concept.

Angela: Yeah, no, it’s so true, like we think that when we get around the dinner table, it’s this all or nothing kind of mentality. And it’s funny because like as parents, we all struggle with these different issues. I mean, my daughter who will eat anything, I just have to remind her to slow down because she eats so fast that later on she’ll have a tummy ache. And then she’s also just not digesting her food. Well, you know, and I’m just like, it’s not going anywhere. But then there’s my picky eater son who eats slow like a bird. And so it’s like, how did these two children have very different mentality around food? Yeah.

Kim: Then that becomes challenging when you’re trying to deal with the four year old who’s in the very picky stage, and the seven year old who needs a little bit more variety but doing pretty good, and the 13 year old who’s, has different needs that we need to work on.

Angela: I was working with a client recently whose teenage daughter was only eating like pasta and cheese. I mean, that was really hard and just trying to find things that she liked to eat. And and for me, the other thing I was going to say, when it comes to children and families, get the kids in the kitchen with you, that has made a huge difference, especially with my picky son. Like he’s he’s the official leek. He likes washing the leeks. And so if we’re having a leak potato soup or something where he gets to actually get his hands in it, it is amazing how much more invested he is in that meal and how much more he enjoys it. So if you can get your kids in the kitchen and helping.

Kim: Yeah, I need to try more of that. Sometimes I have, I have seen it work sometimes, other times it hasn’t necessarily worked, but it’s definitely worth doing more of.

Angela: It’s worth trying and not saying they’re going to eat everything under the sun, but I’ve seen a big difference that way.

Kim: Yeah, and we got our kids to use sharp knives, so all of them, even the four year old, so she started when she was three with the sharp knives. And if you teach them how to do it safely, then. So the young one, they can do soft foods. And as they get older, they can do a lot. And that helps so much. OK, yes, you go you can slice your orange, you can, lots of things they can do now that they can wield a knife.

Angela: And that is a big thing here in Switzerland, because here the kids go to this forest daycare. It’s called waldspielgruppe. And so from a very early age, they’re given literally like knives to play with out in the woods. And as Americans were like, oh, my God. But then they were like, it is amazing to me to see a group of 20 four year olds all with knives and no one gets hurt because they’re trained to how to use them properly. It’s fascinating.

Kim: Something that’s been really fascinating to me as I move around is encountering different philosophies about what makes you healthy and what makes you sick. It’s really challenging what I thought I had learned about germ theory growing up in the US. I know in the US we have a cultural idea that if you get sick, it’s because of something you did wrong. You might think I wasn’t taking very good care of myself. And so I got run down and that’s why I became more susceptible to the germs that were out there, things like that. So it kind of baffles me and frustrates me the number of people who say, oh, you got sick because it’s windy. And I was like, I don’t think that’s how germs work, but some people are super convinced that the virus is coming on the wind from who knows where. Or they’re really concerned about the weather. Like our nanny in Thailand was incredibly vigilant about not letting the kids get wet. She would not let them play in the rain. And I was like, oh, go play in the rain. Yes it’s fun, please do. But if they ever got wet, then she would dry them off really super well as fast as you could, because, you know, if you get wet, then you’ll get sick. And I’ve just found this a fascinating and challenging to kind of encounter these different ideas. And then people will tell me if you’re sick then, and I don’t even know, the warm foods and the cool foods. You know, there’s all these rules about what you can and can’t eat based on what’s going on with your body. And I don’t know enough about it to appreciate what they’re saying. So to me, it kind of goes in one ear and out the other, but probably a lot I could learn from it.

Angela: Now, it’s funny you should say that, because here in Switzerland, there’s a lot of those kind of beliefs, too, like those cultural things where there’s something here they call the Foehn, and it’s like this I don’t even know where it comes from, but the Siberian wind that comes through and makes people sick. And they believe that see people here in the summer wearing like winter coats and scarves. Like they’re very, this fear around the cold. You know, that it’s going to make you sick. Kind of like what you’re saying.

Kim: Even though it’s a country where they get really cold.

Angela: Yeah, yeah, but but it’s funny because, I mean, they do believe that, but.

Kim: Now, I did do some some reading up about the wind thing, and I did find that there were like barometric pressure changes does affect some people and that there is a link in a way, but not in the way that people have said to me.

Angela: I know. No, but I mean, like I’m coming from Florida to a very cold climate, like having to learn how to, you know, make sure you’re dressed warmly, make sure you’re eating properly, you know, that was kind of like I would be almost panic, like if my kid didn’t have a scarf on in the winter. Although, I mean, it’s good to keep your body parts warm and but it’s not what’s making you sick, you know what I mean? Like not having a scarf on or something like that. So I think people can take it to one end of the spectrum to the other.

But for me, like in my program right now, where I call it kind of a four pillar approach, it’s like nutrition is important. It is because what you eat is how your cells respond. So if you’re eating healthy foods, your cells are better prepared to fight off any cold or virus or something that invades or gets into into your body. So I do think the stronger nutrients you eat, the stronger your immune system.

The second is really focusing on sleep and stress management that can really weaken your immune system. And I don’t think people take that into account enough. Like I said, I think it’s as bad as smoking cigarettes. It’s very damaging to your health. Gosh, there’s some statistics around sleep, but there’s a new book out called Why We Sleep. Have you heard this? From Matthew Walker. Oh, my. It’s fascinating. Is a really well written book, too. But, you know, just like they’ve done studies looking at pilots and flight attendants and how that kind of lack of – they can go a long time without sleep – but it’s how it’s affecting their brain, their short term memory. They’re more, they’re much more susceptible to diabetes and rates of cancer just from this lack of sleep Not honoring your natural circadian rhythm, those kind of things. So we focus on sleep and stress management.

Angela: Pillar three is reducing toxins. Like really making over those getting those cleaning supplies, your self care or your beauty products. And then the food as well, like making sure you’re eating real food and not prepackaged food.

And the fourth is really more about ways we can treat a cold. So it’s not such a long, it doesn’t turn into this huge severity and duration, goes on forever and ever. So how can we address it? I’m a believer that in the winter when there’s all these colds and things going around, you need lots of liquids, the warmer the better. I mean, I’m not saying boiling hot stuff, but like I would I really believe that really cold stuff in the winter is not as good for you as your warm or your soups, your teas, those kind of things. And then, I mean, I’m not really into, I don’t know if you are going down the route of warm versus cool as far as like there’s a whole Ayurvedic approach to eating as well.

Kim: That’s what I was referring to, and I don’t really know. I don’t know enough about it to evaluate what people have said to me.

Angela: We learned about it in health coaching but I’ve never brought it into my practice because I… Most people I work with just need the basics really. Get back to basics. And I think if you’re at a point where you’re doing all those things right and maybe something is still missing, then we can look at that. Should your dosha be one that where your should drink more cool food or warm, even more warm things, then we go down there. But yeah, that’s not my not my bailiwick either, so.

Kim: Now, you said sleep and stress management. What would you say: What is stress management?

Angela: Gosh, this has been such a stressful year for so many people. And you say, OK, let’s pretend like this year, I mean, we all wish we could pretend like this never happened. But, you know, like going back before this crazy year. You’d have moments of stress in your life, hopefully your body does what it’s supposed to do, kind of that fight or flight mode and your stress levels go up, your cortisol kicks in. But then you kind of, it comes back down. I feel like this year is just like this. We’re just in a constant state of acute stress and it’s that constant cortisol injection. We’re seeing a lot more anxiety, a lot more mental issues, mental health issues. And it affects your… People don’t realize how it affects your hormones, how it affects your appetite, how it affects your immune system. It’s just this having been in a constant state of stress.

So in our in my program, I introduce a lot of different, I shouldn’t say a lot, a handful of different avenues to go down to manage your stress. It’s up to you which one you choose. I’m not saying you have to do meditation, yoga, have tapping every day. Pick one or two that you enjoy doing that you feel like you can fit into your day. That just makes you get back to a balanced, less stressful state of being. And gratitude is one. Meditation, journaling. We talked about yoga and exercise.

Exercise is such a great. You know, people I think even myself growing up as a teenager and young adult, you know, watching my figure, I thought exercise was just about keeping slim. But exercise is so much more. It’s about relieving stress, having that good mental break from whatever other things you’re doing. But it also helps you sleep, which is great because you need you know, it has so many benefits beyond just keeping you fit and trim. It’s really about helping you from a mental state of mind as well as helping you sleep. Because it’s as you know, it’s just this kind of snowball effect. You don’t sleep well. So let’s say you’re stressed out, you don’t sleep well. The next day you’re making poor food choices. And it’s just this constant cycle of making poor food choices, not sleeping well, not exercising.

Kim: Yeah, then you don’t have the wherewithal to do the right things the next day.

Angela: Exactly. So yeah, so it’s super important that people choose what, like I’m not big on meditation, like sitting in quiet for ten minutes. But I’m very good at guided meditation. Well I say good, I don’t know how you have to be. I can sit and listen to a guided meditation. But it just helps kind of bring the focus back inward when there’s so many things going on in your day or in your life.

Kim: So you’re talking about a variety of practices that just take you into the parasympathetic state.

Angela: Yes. Yes.

Kim: OK, so that, that’s basically stress management.

Angela: Yeah, and we talked a lot about breathing exercises. Because I think that for a lot of people – and again I saw it this year in myself and my family where you’re [short inhale] in this constant state of worry or concerned about what’s going on and back home. And you take these short little breaths, “Heh, heh” until you don’t realize how much that raises your cortisol. It’s so important to just let it out, shake it out, do something to change our mindset about what’s going on in the world.

Kim: Tell us what you’ve got coming up next in your programs.

Angela: So this is the last week of our immunity program In the first week we talked about nutrition. So a lot of them were asking, let’s do a program about nutrition at the beginning of the year to kind of kick off the year. I hate the cliche of like New Year, new new goals, but, yeah, new solutions. But a lot of people have asked, especially because we talked a lot about in the program, about our digestive system and how much that impacts both our physical health, our immune system, our mental health. I mean, a lot of people don’t realize that there’s like statistics like 70 to 80 percent of our immune system lies in our gut, you know, in our digestive system. So having a healthy digestive system. How do we do that? So really focusing. Usually I take people through an elimination diet. So that, is gluten an issue? Is dairy an issue? Sugar is usually always an issue. And saying, OK, what things can we either substitute or eliminate from your diet? And so you feel better.

So to answer your question, in January, we’ll be doing like a winter detox. But I hate the word detox. I have to think of another word because detox makes people think they’re going to be starving and not, like you said, like juicing and doing things that feels restrictive. And really, my programs are all about eating an abundance of food, but just really focusing on the healthy foods, getting the right amount of proteins, nutrients, carbs, those fats….

Kim: So a reset.

Angela: I like that. Reset. Yes, yeah.

Kim: Great. So we’ll have a link to that in the show notes. And you have a Facebook group. We’ll have a link to that. Thank you so much for coming and talking with us today. I really appreciate it.

Angela: My pleasure.

Kim: Got lots of little nuggets in there for people to act on, and if they want more, they know where to find you.

Angela: Yes, thanks so much. It’s been fun.

Angela’s website is Warm Wellness dot com, and you can find her on Facebook and other places by searching for Warm Wellness. There are links to her website and facebook group in the show notes, so check those out if you want more on healthy living topics.

This episode was the 4th in a 5-part series on major life transitions that can be more complicated for expats. Episode 12 is on giving birth abroad; Episode 13 is on when someone dies while you’re abroad; Episode 14 is on menopause; and next episode we’re talking about empty nest … when your kids have gone off to university and the family dynamic really changes.

Remember to be on the lookout for more details about Expat Coach Coalition’s program Adapt.Succeed.Together.

Honestly, it’s going to change lives. … Hopefully yours.